• The Key to Corporate Health Services provided by Dr Kelly Lease

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    Joe: Hey, everyone. Welcome to this episode of the Private Practice Business Academy. This is your host, Dr. Joe Simon. And today, we have a very special guest, a friend of mine who has worked with me in the past. She is Kelly Lease — Dr. Kelly Lease — and she is the owner of Kelly Lease Physical Therapy. We’re graced by her presence, because we’ve got someone that has actually figured out how to start a practice inside a corporate office, which many practitioners in the past have approached me, and approached many other consultants, and asked how do we get started in this. So let’s pick Kelly’s brain and find out how everything started. Kelly, welcome to the show.

    Kelly: Yeah, hey. Hi, Joe. Thank you.

    Joe: You’re welcome. Kelly, tell the audience a little about yourself. I just want to give you a heads up: it’s not just physical therapists. We have dentists, medical practitioners, health and wellness professionals. So give them a full background on who you are, and how you got started, and how you got there.

    Kelly: Okay, great. Thanks, Joe. To make a long story short, I’ve always been very physically involved. I used to be a professional ballet dancer with the Jacques Ballet in New York. And into fitness and Pilates, and I used to be a personal trainer and teach aerobics. So my whole life was about keeping physically fit and active, and finding ways to enjoy what you’re doing. And so I was teaching aerobics, being a personal trainer, even dancing and teaching ballet lessons. I literally had a fall into it, let’s just say, and I fell across the street from Lincoln Center when I was dancing with Jacques Ballet, and I had a very bad inverted ankle sprain. So they hand you the wooden crutches, back then, and they just said, “Well, hang up your ballet slippers. Now you’re finished. You probably won’t be able to dance again competitively.” And basically, you might try some physical therapy and see what happens. So I was 17 at the time, and everyone thinks they’re invincible then, of course. And I went to physical therapy, and I have to say, it truthfully made such a positive difference in my life, being able to really make a difference and an impact on someone’s not only physical function, but for me, to be able to return to dancing at a competitive level again, and then teaching. So at that time, it was around time to go to college anyway, and I had really done well in school, so that was the cloud with the silver lining that really introduced me to PT as a profession. So I went into it, and I’m lucky to say that I’m still involved in dancing. But my background in dance, knowing the body, flexibility, and personal training, and teaching aerobics through the years, just growing up, had only enhanced my decision and my background, coming into becoming a physical therapist.

    Joe: Excellent. Excellent stuff. It’s tough, at such a young age, to almost . . . I don’t want to say crush your dreams, but something that you really wanted to do, obviously, was dance. But you found a little pathway to get to physical therapy, which I find that a lot of physical therapists have a little background story of how they ended up falling into physical therapy. But that is awesome. But the best news is that you’re still teaching dance, so that’s great. Good stuff.

    Kelly: Yeah. It’s really nice. I still do teach private dance lessons on the waterfront in Hoboken, by appointment, which I love doing. But actually, I did my master’s thesis and some of my work on PT interventions for ballet dancers. So I had honors in research for that. So some of my schooling is in flat form presentation through the APTA, and then went on to work with the Broadway shows in New York backstage, with a lot of the dancers, since they’ll only hire experienced therapists who are dancers themselves. So it was really nice that I was going around full circle and do all of my favorite things combined, and then be backstage in New York at some of the shows, treating dancers, being a dancer myself, and a physical therapist. So I was really fortunate to be in that environment.

    Joe: Now, Kelly, I want to ask you, and a lot of the listeners are basically sitting on the fence about starting their own practice, or where to go, which niche to get into. What are your thoughts on . . . would you have gone into a niche of more private practice dealing with dancers only if that was an opportunity, or did you have that opportunity?

    Kelly: Ironically, yes, Joe. I was actually doing the therapy for “The Lion King,” “42nd Street” before it closed, “Hairspray,” “Mamma Mia.” All the great shows. And there was a turning point where I had gotten an offer to be the full-time therapist for “The Lion King,” which, if you had asked me in PT school before I completed all of my degrees, that would have been one of the all- time career high, dream come true type of opportunities. So then I mentored for five years to be able to get my foot in the door, to even bet my own show. It’s a very lengthy process. And then it hit me backstage one time. I finally arrived, and there I was, really enjoying what I was doing. I was loving it. You’re using your mind, you’re working, you’re helping people, you’re making a difference. It’s a very exciting backstage behind the shows. And Disney, who runs “The Lion King,” had asked me to be their lead therapist, and it was a crossroads for me, because while it was a dream come true and a career goal, now that I had grown so much personally and professionally, and with my dance background and PT background, with more experience in the field, I decided while it was a great opportunity and I would love this opportunity to continue to work with the shows in some capacity, there was another job offer coming in in a corporate environment, which actually was Goldman at the time. And so I had to choose. And so I chose a different path, and a newer environment, for a slightly more advanced role in terms of running a program, starting a program, and getting that type of experience. Which I think that decision very much influenced the decisions that followed, leading to where I am today.

    Joe: Amazing how that happens, right? How one little step changes the entire path of your entire career path.

    Kelly: Definitely.

    Joe: And even if we play Monday Morning Quarterback and say, “Hey, I should have done this, I should have done that,” in the end, you’ve made great decisions. In the end, you’ve started your own practice inside a corporate headquarters, and that’s absolutely amazing. Tell the listeners about your experience at Goldman Sachs, which, if you research Kelly Lease’s profile on LinkedIn, you’ll see that she worked for a company known as Plus One, and they have been around for many years, and they basically had a very . . . I would say a pretty strong lock on all the corporate and financial offices in New York and nationwide. They had a big stake in it. And you were a clinic director or head physical therapist at the Goldman Sachs office here in New York.

    Kelly: Yes. Well, actually the Jersey City location, but I also treated some MBs and high-rollers in the city as well. But I’ve been in the Jersey City location, mm-hmm.

    Joe: Okay. Did it help . . . do you believe being in that atmosphere, do you believe it helped you develop more of an urge to get out of working for a company, or did you feel like you could do this better? Did you have any of those feelings? When did you decide that, you know what, I can’t do this any longer, or I could do this better, and make that switch?

    Kelly: Well, it’s interesting. A few things happened, Joe. I really enjoyed the time at Goldman. Again, it was a different learning experience. It was starting and running a brand-new program out of a major corporation. I was honored to do so. And it just grew dramatically. It got really where people would say, “I don’t know what you’re doing, but keep doing it, because patients are pouring in. Everyone’s thrilled. People are happy.” And it was just a really booming business, and I enjoyed it. And as you’ve mentioned, Plus One has been around for years. Ironically, before I went to PT school, they offered me a job as the manager of the fitness center of the World Financial Center, at the time. This was a while back. So they said, “We’re starting a small PT/physical therapy branch.” And I was like, “Oh, we’ll keep in touch.” You never know, and I never burn a bridge, and you always keep the options open. Went away to South Florida grad school. Did my thing, whichever else. Came back up. Worked in hospitals, worked in the Broadway shows. And then, out of the blue, someone from Plus One found my resume, and they remembered me from way back when with my fitness background. And the next thing you know, four interviews later, I was running the therapy at Goldman Sachs. So it was a great experience there, and I think a different type of model in terms of you’re dealing with a very specialized patient population. People are very intelligent. They’re very motivated to get better. Also, it’s a little bit different than private practice on the street, in terms of . . . you’re in their house, basically. In the corporate culture. And you’re doing the right thing by physical therapy, and by the profession, but there’s also . . . of course you always want to please the client or the patient, and have the highest satisfaction rate available. But it’s even more of a delicate balance when your office is located within their headquarters. So that was a little bit of a different dynamic than, say, if you had your own freestanding clinic on the street. There’s pluses and minuses to both. But I felt like I really liked the model. I believed in it, and I enjoyed the time at Goldman.
    Ironically, I had to leave for a different reason. Other things going on in life at the time. And when I decided to pick back up, I was very selective in where I wanted to go next. So I had some offers, either to run a PT practice chain type of clinic and be a clinic director there. And I observed and I looked at their business model, and as we know these days, there’s pressures in the health care environment about health insurance, reimbursement. Many clinics just crank in the number of patients per hour so they can bill insurance, which leaves you less time to do what you really want to do, plus less hands-on treating time. And I said to myself, this is not the model that I’ve built in my whole career. I’ve always done very individualized, highly manual engaged therapy. And that was my success in the shows, that was my success at Goldman. And I felt like I would be selling out if I just went to the street. And this isn’t all clinics. There’s many different types of clinics out there, as we all know. But I was getting offered a lot of money to run a well-known chain type of clinic by seeing a minimum of maybe five people an hour. And again, some people can do it, and that can be fine for some people. But the model that I had wanted, and that I established, which I felt was what patients really wanted, was the unique time. The individualized time of at least 30 minutes one-on-one per session, which is what I wanted to stay with. So that brought me to starting a program at Johnson & Johnson, at their corporate headquarters, a little over four years ago. And it reminded me very much of what I did at Goldman Sachs. And ironically, they heard about my work at Goldman Sachs, which is how they recruited me to come to Johnson & Johnson. So literally when I first started the program, it was the tables, my bare hands, the patients. We were ordering equipment. They really had no idea about physical therapy. I was really their physical therapy product expert, if you will. So I had to really set up from the ground up. Tell them how the front desk should work. How appointments should be booked. And it was really a lot of work on the front end. But once we had the program up and running, it just grew exponentially. And my first week, I was treating the former CEO, these executive positions. Being, again, a health care professional at one of the largest health care companies globally, it also takes it to a different level. So even though Goldman was wonderful, they’re a little bit, obviously, financially based. You had people who know some things about health care. But when you bring yourself, as a health care professional, in the center of a health center at a large health care company that’s filled with health care professionals, it really narrows it down.
    So I spent the time doing that, and I was happy with the way we built the program, individualized the sort of expectations. I enjoyed it. But I guess to answer your question, Joe, I started to feel like something needed to change or shift for the better, or I could do this better, or we could take this to the next level, in that patients just kept flooding in to come see me. And they were nurse practitioners, there were some physicians. But physical therapy was really in such high demand. So year after year, the numbers would just spike, and show that there was such exponential growth and demand for the services. And I’m the one who’s providing those services based on quality of care, patient satisfaction, people referring. And the biggest referral was really by word of mouth. It was almost like nutrition would advertise, nursing would advertise. They’d advertise to new clinics. And with all respect, it was almost like we didn’t even have to advertise the physical therapy, because if we did, I’d be there 24/7. There wasn’t enough time in the day. So I started to feel like definitely people were noticing that I was in demand there, and I was working hard and willing to do whatever it took to get people in, give them the quality of care. And that’s what they wanted, and it really became an excellent reputation for the program. But I started to think, about a year or so ago, not that I was unhappy, but either that I should just have my own practice, because I’m basically running the show anyway.

    Joe: Mm-hmm.

    Kelly: People don’t really care that they’re coming to X company at Johnson & Johnson to see me for physical therapy. They just really care that they’re seeing me for physical therapy. So I treated many physicians, patients, a lot of very senior people at J&J, who started to understand how much in demand I was. And then, ironically, life just happened, and I just became very sick with a sinus infection. And I’m never really sick, and I never miss work, and people know that if I’m not there, it’s a situation. And I couldn’t come in, and they offered coverage, and people didn’t even want to come in until I came back. They said, “You know what? We’d rather just wait. We trust her the most. We’ll wait a week. We hope she feels better.” And I really think it sends a message, both to the company that I was working for, but it also sends a message to Johnson & Johnson that everyone’s replaceable, but something is just not the same now if I’m not there for a few days, a week. And I had not been that sick in years. So it’s kind of a turning point, and I started to think, well, I really like J&J, and they like me, and I really like my patients, and they like me. We had great relationships, and some of those people at J&J have even referred me to private patients outside of J&J. And these are physicians and their friends, and very senior people in the community which I still see privately. But so then some conversation started happening when I came back, just because I think that J&J could sense that I was really running the practice and driving the business of the health center very much, and they didn’t want me to leave. So we started to discuss other alternatives so that I would stay.

    Joe: So basically, to start the whole thing, a different company brought you in. Almost like a Plus One type of company brought you into J&J.

    Kelly: Yeah.

    Joe: Okay. All right.

    Kelly: Exactly.

    Joe: Got it. Okay. So once you demonstrated your value to the host company, they realized that the partner that they thought they had wasn’t really providing as much value as they needed, and it was really the therapist that provided the most value. So they almost basically cut the middle man out, basically, and just took you on board, and you accepted the deal, which is great. But from your experience, how would someone approach a corporate atmosphere? Would you say, if you had to do it all again, would you, with your experience now, and, say, with the experience with J&J, and you were asked to approach . . . we’ll call them XYZ Corporate Office. How would you approach that corporate office now? I mean, obviously you have . . . you can easily use J&J as a template and say, “I have this experience.” But if you didn’t, what advice would you give to a new therapist that would like to pursue a corporate angle?

    Kelly: Sure. Well, I would say — and this would be for any type of practice situation — but you’d always want to know your audience very well. What their needs are, what their expectations are, what their culture is like. And then there comes a point in time in your career where you say, you know what? I have experience. I have skills. People are flooding to get in here. They’ll wait two weeks till I’m available. I won’t keep people waiting, but if there ever was a wait, they would wait it, and that would be worth it, rather than go somewhere else. So I think having that type of confidence in your skills and an entrepreneurial spirit, in that I know how to run things the right way as a physical therapist in this profession. You want to do a quality job and you know you’re capable of doing so. Then speaking with the company or the organization in consideration, and just really pitching what you have to offer, and not only what you have to offer, but how what you’re offering is not only different, but better than what’s on the street.
    Because that’s really J&J’s . . . that was really . . . they want in-house. They have their own corporate health center. So what they wanted in-house was, by bringing me on through this other company, which is similar to Plus One . . . and again, I have nothing but good things to say about them. It’s just what happened, Joe, was that they brought me in, and then the program exploded beyond what they even though the return on investment would be. So year after year, it just kept on growing and growing. And year after year, nursing would stay relatively the same, physician business would stay relatively the same, but physical therapy kept growing. So J&J . . . and ironically, I was treating their well-known medical director, the CEO of this one and that one, and they would just see. Just provide quality care. I would treat everyone the same. I mean, obviously very well, and have a good repertoire with them. But they saw that the return on investment . . . I was really driving the health center. And if I wasn’t there, it was a big difference. So that’s why they decided to make their own offer and cut out this other company so that we can guarantee continuing the same mindset, model, quality of care, moving forward into the future.

    Joe: Absolutely.

    Kelly: So to answer your question, and not to interrupt, but for someone who’s on the fence . . . I really was at almost a breaking point, where I said, I love what I do, I like these patients, I like this company, they like me. It’s a win/win for both of us. We just had this third party that we’re dealing with that we don’t really need to deal with. I can easily just do this on my own. And that’s why they ended up making the offer.

    Joe: Got it. Yeah. So if someone is at that point, or just starting out, and they want to approach a big company, would you advise them to go to . . . to see if this company had a health center? Or if it even doesn’t have a health center, who do you think they should contact first? I mean, obviously if it had a health center, they would have a contact point. In the past, that’s how I’ve done it myself. I would go to a company’s health center and would offer my services, and exactly what you have said. Basically offering value. But it’s not the value of what I would bring. I did it a little differently back then. I brought them the value that I could bring their patients, and say, this is the benefit that I can offer your patients. And obviously, it was time management. It was also . . . and that was the main thing they looked at, and they liked to keep their health care costs down.

    Kelly: Sure.

    Joe: So that was the angles that I used back then. Who do you think they should approach now? Because obviously, I’ll be very honest, I have not approached a corporate office in probably a few years with any of this. So when somebody just called me up recently and discussed this with me, and I said, you know what? In all fairness . . . and I’m a big referral source. I’m a big networker. And I like to connect people to the right person. And I said, you know what? This is a space that I did not have enough experience in. Hence the reason why I sought you out and said, you know what? This would be a great interview, because this is somebody that has the experience. This is somebody that’s living that world and has a practice.

    Kelly: Sure.

    Joe: So to go back to that question, if they’re starting out, if they have no connections, but if they have your knowledge of, “I need to connect with somebody,” who do you think that connection should be?

    Kelly: Well, it can vary. Of course, depending on the route of HR and things like that, which can be fairly general, depending on what the need is. And I do agree with you, being like, you want to be time- and cost-efficient, especially in this environment. I think that’s what any corporation is looking for. People missing less time from work, more productive, healthier. So there’s a whole thing. I totally agree. And just how you’re adding value. But I think . . . ironically, one of my old patients from Goldman, I see him privately. He’s in legal. I treat him privately sometimes in the city. And as just an example, to answer your question. He was like, “If you know someone at the corporation on any level of the corporation . . . ” Because this guy’s an attorney. He was laughing and joking, and he said, “Oh, this is my old therapist from Golden. We should steal her to come here, or even come here once a week and treat our firm.” And they were actually entertaining the idea. And it almost became a joke, because I would love to do it. I didn’t have the actual time, because then I’d have to take away time from J&J.
    So to your point, if you know someone in an organization at various levels, whether it’s top senior levels or even people who know other people who can network and lead you to the right channels of a newer organization, I think that’s one good way to get in the door. So various corporations, whether it’s a specific department, higher or lower, but just getting yourself in there and meeting with someone, and being able to offer your services or teach what you can do. I think people are pretty receptive to that these days.

    Joe: So good news is what I’ve done in the past has not changed too much, so I don’t feel so old anymore. Thank you, Kelly, for that.

    Kelly: Oh, sure.

    Joe: But it’s good. You gave a great nugget of information, and I hope everyone picked that up. It’s definitely the connections. And it’s something you said in the very beginning, never to burn bridges. And even if it is a private patient, but it can be anybody in the organization. That one person could really ask around for you, or find the actual contact person for you to speak to. So that might be your foot in the door. So that’s exactly what Kelly said, and I think that’s a great piece of information to take. Kelly, let’s talk about the new practice. It’s been around for how long? It started this past summer? Six months, I’m guessing? Am I right? Wrong?

    Kelly: It’s about five months now, yeah. It’s been flying by. So it’s been good. Again, it’s like now I’m used to start-ups, building from the ground up. But this was exciting, because they said, “Listen, we’ll set you up, we’ll pick out your new equipment.” And all of my patients were just thrilled, because they’ve seen me grow through the years, so they thought it was the best thing ever. Couldn’t wait to sign the form to transfer and things like that. So it’s been busy. And sometimes in practice management, obviously your focus is on your patients, and they do have front desk and other people who can assist you with scheduling. But I think right now, I’m being a little bit of everything to everyone all the time. So when you’re ordering new equipment, things are arriving. There’s your heater system, your tables, this and that. You want the best of everything for people, and you also don’t want people to miss their appointment time. So I was working around the clock for the first six weeks in order to pull off the transition, set things up, transfer my patients over with a continuous model of care so that they wouldn’t miss treatment time and also scheduling. So I didn’t used to schedule my own appointments, which can be plus or minus. But actually now, it’s turning out for the better. Although I have front desk support, no question, but I’m actually scheduling my own patients, which can be a little bit more time-consuming. The reason I’m bringing this up is because some patients require, say, 30 minutes. Some patients, I might give 40 minutes, depending on what they need. Some people are really more complicated, and they may need an hour, right?

    Joe: Yeah.

    Kelly: Or very senior people, I might see them for an hour or an hour and a half, but I might not see them every week. They may be traveling internationally, or whatever it is. So when they come in, they want to have an amazing session, whether it’s 45 minutes, an hour, and hour and a half. But I’m the only one who really knows my patients that well, so it’s almost easier, even though it’s more work, it’s easier for me to manage my schedule myself. Even though I have support staff to be able to assist me, because I know my patients better than they do, and I want to always make sure that everyone has the appropriate amount of time. And that might fluctuate a little bit from week to week. But I think that, although it’s more work in the start-up, I know other people had questions about this, or front desk operations, or when you hire front desk, and the pluses and minuses and things like that. But I guess in my position now, I have front desk support, but I’ve chosen to keep the scheduling just under my own control physically. It’s almost like too many hands in the pot could mess it up, and it’s such a specialized type of practice, which is based on the time spent and based on the quality.
    So it’s settling down now, definitely, and it’s into more of a routine, now that the basics are set up. So it’s busy, but I feel like I’ve always taken pride in my work wherever I was working, and always give it the very best. But I think it’s shifted onto an even greater meaning when it is your practice, you are the business, and you’re out there. And it’s been a ramp up of over four years leading up to it, and people are very happy to see the accomplishment of it. But it brings an extra level of responsibility and accountability when it’s you, yourself, and yourself running your practice.

    Joe: That’s a great point you bring up, Kelly, because most people don’t . . . they assume the grass is always greener. And I’ve run businesses for a long time, and what you’re basically bringing up is systems, and the systems that you have to have in place for each person’s role is very, very important. And even when I go consult, and when I work with other health professionals, I always look at their systems, and I break down each system, and I revamp them. And that’s all it really is, in the end, is if you have a great system in place for every level of employee, including yourself, the business runs so much smoother. And what you just said, the level of responsibility changed from working for somebody, even though you basically ran the business, you ran the practice, now that it’s your own business, it’s a new level of headache, I like to call it. But it’s more rewarding, and it’s something you love to do. And that’s why I try to let all my listeners know that sitting on the fence and debating about starting their own practice, or if they should continue working for someone else, just remember, your own practice will be a lot more work, but you will love it at the end of the day. And that’s exactly what Kelly’s saying. And there are listeners that will obviously disagree with the scheduling and how you’re working it out, but I want them to understand that you’re just starting out your way in a very specialized corporate atmosphere where patients know you. And there’s going to be some growing pains, and you’re going to have a few things that you have to figure out, and that might take a couple of months. And that’s average, and that’s normal for everyone going through what you’re going through. So I know I’m going to get a few comments about a couple of things that you said, so that’s why I’m pre- empting it right now . . .

    Kelly: Oh, sure.

    Joe: . . . and giving an answer to them before I get those comments. I’m giving an answer. But Kelly, I . . .

    Kelly: Oh, definitely.

    Joe: Yeah. I mean, look, everyone has growing pains, and that’s what I want people to realize. That it’s not just you jump on board and you can . . . you had the ability to order a lot of equipment because you have a huge company backing you up, and they’re helping you out with this, which is great. But some practices will start off in a room, just like how you did years ago with your private patients. Just a room and a table and your hands, and that’s really it. And that might be your starting point. Which, that’s . . .

    Kelly: Right.

    Joe: Yeah. That’ll be perfect.

    Kelly: And that might be enough. I’ve done that, too. I mean, I have a guy right now, he has an extra space at the [inaudible 31:42] physician. He’s actually very good friends with some senior people at J&J. He’s the CEO of his own company. To talk about getting involved in other corporations. He knows what I do at J&J. I’m actually seeing him later today. He’s CEO of a hedge fund. And he’s like, “Well, if you ever get bored at J&J, you can come help us out over here.” But it’s very minimal. It’s very nice, but literally, it’s my hands, the table. Sometimes you don’t need a lot to start out. It’s just the quality of what you’re doing and the relationship that you have with that patient. And the clinical results, of course.
    So for me, it can vary, definitely. You can do a lot with a little bit of equipment. Right now, I have a nice amount of equipment, and things have settled in, and I’m already tweaking the scheduling. But I think your point, I’m very organized and I’ve had a system running, whether it was a similar model at Goldman. I enhanced it at J&J. Now I took it to the next level for my own practice. I think if you have a certain amount of organization, a certain drive and motivation, which I think most of us do as therapists, but if you are on the fence, there’s more than one way to do things. You’ll find the way that fits your style and your practice, that works best and most efficiently for you, and you can always tweak it from there.

    Joe: Absolutely. So what’s on the horizon, Kelly? I mean, obviously you’re in great demand from more than one company. Where do you think you’re going to take this? I see that you’re only one person, I know this, and your hands are only going to survive so long of treating everyone. But what’s the goals? What’s your two-year plan? I don’t say five-year plan, because that’s too far out. I barely can think past next week. But where do you think you’re going to take this?

    Kelly: Sure. Well, it’s exciting, because the way we remodeled that contract . . . again, it’s very ironic when you’re really putting your . . . I guess how do we say? You’re putting your money where your mouth is, or your skills where your mouth is. You’re really treating the people that are helping you make the decisions, make the new contract, make the new office. So if you have these people on your table, and you’re just doing your due diligence, and you’re doing a good job, it’s almost like the proof is there, right? So we set it up where they wanted me to be around for a while. They respect that I still see private patients [inaudible 33:58] on Wednesdays, and different things. So they really built it around the needs and expectations that I had, and then what I wanted to offer them the best I possibly could without dropping some very senior patients that I currently had, out of professional courtesy. And they understand.
    So I think what I see for the future is that I built into my new contract the ability to sub-contract, the ability to hire other people, as things continue to grow and demand grows. Because, like you said, I’m only one person. I only have two hands, and you can’t do everything all the time by yourself. So I think in terms of the business model, there are systems in place to allow for growth when the time comes. And I think the time will be coming, and there’s other operating companies, and within J&J it’s huge. There’s other places that may be critical mass areas that need physical therapy in the future. So based on the fact that I’m at their world headquarters, I’ve really started therapy there, and now I’m their preferred provider. I think there’s opportunity to grow, either at other J&J offices, whether in New Jersey or the New York City area, and sub- contracting is an option. So I probably think it will go in that direction. It’s just a matter of when and where.

    Joe: Got it. Got it. So you have your hands full, and I wish you the best of luck with all of it. And it’s exciting. It’s absolutely exciting. And like I said in the beginning of the show, I’ve actually known Kelly. Before we got on the phone call this morning, I double-checked and I said, I knew of Kelly and we did work together in the past for Plus One, years ago, and we actually never met, though. We’ve been on the phone a lot.

    Kelly: Yeah.

    Joe: For coverage and stuff like that. So it was great touching base again today. It’s always great to see people you’ve worked with in the past. And no matter how many PT’s are out there, it’s amazing that it is a small world in the end. You always bump into somebody that you knew from somewhere, some office, some time. So excellent stuff, Kelly. I want to thank you. You gave some great information for basically getting into the corporate world, and how it worked out for you, and how your practice is basically exploding, and how you’re going to be growing, and how you’re going to be changing. And I hope it really helps the others out that are trying to figure out where they should go. One last question, though. This is not a cash-based practice. This is basically insurance-based through J&J, correct, with the insurances that they have?

    Kelly: Well, ironically, this is the most amazing thing of all, is that my private patients are just cash-based only, and that’s fine, and it makes it simpler. And they’re willing to pay because of the quality and the time. They realize the value. I don’t know if you remember, but at Goldman, they billed insurance. So people pay their co-pay and come in.

    Joe: Yeah.

    Kelly: However, you can charge a cancellation fee if they couldn’t come. And for some of those people, they probably didn’t care. A $75 cancellation fee for them could be like 75 cents, you know?

    Joe: Yeah.

    Kelly: So it’s a different world. But actually, at J&J, it’s almost a microcosm of society, where therapy is on the house. So they don’t bill insurance at all. So they’re just paying me a fee for service. They’re not pressuring me to crank out. I’m busy. I’m definitely flooded, and they’re happy to see how busy the program has become, whether that was the former CEO on Day 3 or people right now. But the nice part about it is that we don’t bill insurance, and the patients don’t even pay a co-pay. So that part is completely taken out of the picture. Which is actually nice for both the patients, obviously, because they just go to therapy at their work. They don’t have to travel. They don’t even have to pay their co-pay, and they’re getting great quality of care. And for me, as a therapist, it’s great, because I’m credentialed with many insurance companies, just being in the business for years, but I don’t have to deal with the reimbursement, the paperwork..

    Joe: Wow, that’s . . .

    Kelly: So it’s a really neat situation.

    Joe: That’s awesome. So basically, you’re doing fee for service, which is a cash-based model regardless, within a corporate office. I mean, I hope someone else can figure that system out as well. I wish I talked more about that, but we’re running out of time today.

    Kelly: Sure.

    Joe: I only had you on for 40 minutes, and I’m going to stick to that time slot. But that is absolutely wonderful. I’m blown away by that. We will continue this conversation in our next interview, maybe six months down the line, to see where Kelly has taken the business, and see how it’s all working out. And I’ll be excited to hear about that. So once again, I want to thank everybody for listening to the show today. This is Dr. Joe Simon. Please leave a comment, either on our Facebook page or at the bottom of the blog. I hope you enjoyed this episode. Kelly, thank you once again for being on the show, and I really, really appreciate it.

    Kelly: Oh, great. Thank you, Joe. It was great speaking with you again, and I’m excited for what the future holds.

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